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By the force of social circumstances this great 600th anniversary of the
Battle of Kosovo is taking place in a year in which Serbia, after many years,
after many decades, has regained its state, national, and spiritual integrity.
Therefore, it is not difficult for us to answer today the old question: how
are we going to face Milos [Milos Obilic, legendary hero of the Battle of
Kosovo]. Through the play of history and life, it seems as if Serbia has,
precisely in this year, in 1989, regained its state and its dignity and thus
has celebrated an event of the distant past which has a great historical and
symbolic significance for its future.

Serbian Character - Liberational

Today, it is difficult to say what is the historical truth about the Battle of
Kosovo and what is legend. Today this is no longer important. Oppressed by
pain and filled with hope, the people used to remember and to forget, as,
after all, all people in the world do, and it was ashamed of treachery and
glorified heroism. Therefore it is difficult to say today whether the Battle
of Kosovo was a defeat or a victory for the Serbian people, whether thanks to
it we fell into slavery or we survived in this slavery. The answers to those
questions will be constantly sought by science and the people. What has been
certain through all the centuries until our time today is that disharmony
struck Kosovo 600 years ago? If we lost the battle, then this was not only the
result of social superiority and the armed advantage of the Ottoman Empire but
also of the tragic disunity in the leadership of the Serbian state at that
time. In that distant 1389, the Ottoman Empire was not only stronger than that
of the Serbs but it was also more fortunate than the Serbian kingdom.

The lack of unity and betrayal in Kosovo will continue to follow the Serbian
people like an evil fate through the whole of its history. Even in the last
war, this lack of unity and betrayal led the Serbian people and Serbia into
agony, the consequences of which in the historical and moral sense exceeded
fascist aggression.

Even later, when a socialist Yugoslavia was set up, in this new state the
Serbian leadership remained divided, prone to compromise to the detriment of
its own people. The concessions that many Serbian leaders made at the expense
of their people could not be accepted historically and ethically by any nation
in the world, especially because the Serbs have never in the whole of their
history conquered and exploited others. Their national and historical being
has been liberational throughout the whole of history and through two world
wars, as it is today. They liberated themselves and when they could they also
helped others to liberate themselves. The fact that in this region they are a
major nation is not a Serbian sin or shame; this is an advantage which they
have not used against others, but I must say that here, in this big, legendary
field of Kosovo, the Serbs have not used the advantage of being great for
their own benefit either. Thanks to their leaders and politicians and their
vassal mentality they felt guilty before themselves and others. This situation
lasted for decades, it lasted for years and here we are now at the field of
Kosovo to say that this is no longer the case.

Unity Will Make Prosperity Possible

Disunity among Serb officials made Serbia lag behind and their inferiority
humiliated Serbia. Therefore, no place in Serbia is better suited for saying
this than the field of Kosovo and no place in Serbia is better suited than the
field of Kosovo for saying that unity in Serbia will bring prosperity to the
Serbian people in Serbia and each one of its citizens, irrespective of his
national or religious affiliation.

Serbia of today is united and equal to other republics and prepared to do
everything to improve its financial and social position and that of all its
citizens. If there is unity, cooperation, and seriousness, it will succeed in
doing so. This is why the optimism that is now present in Serbia to a
considerable extent regarding the future days is realistic, also because it is
based on freedom, which makes it possible for all people to express their
positive, creative and humane abilities aimed at furthering social and
personal life.

Serbia has never had only Serbs living in it. Today, more than in the past,
members of other peoples and nationalities also live in it. This is not a
disadvantage for Serbia. I am truly convinced that it is its advantage.
National composition of almost all countries in the world today, particularly
developed ones, has also been changing in this direction. Citizens of
different nationalities, religions, and races have been living together more
and more frequently and more and more successfully.

Socialism in particular, being a progressive and just democratic society,
should not allow people to be divided in the national and religious respect.
The only differences one can and should allow in socialism are between hard
working people and idlers and between honest people and dishonest people.
Therefore, all people in Serbia who live from their own work, honestly,
respecting other people and other nations, are in their own republic.

Dramatic National Divisions

After all, our entire country should be set up on the basis of such
principles. Yugoslavia is a multinational community and it can survive only
under the conditions of full equality for all nations that live in it.

The crisis that hit Yugoslavia has brought about national divisions, but also
social, cultural, religious and many other less important ones. Among all
these divisions, nationalist ones have shown themselves to be the most
dramatic. Resolving them will make it easier to remove other divisions and
mitigate the consequences they have created.

For as long as multinational communities have existed, their weak point has
always been the relations between different nations. The threat is that the
question of one nation being endangered by the others can be posed one day --
and this can then start a wave of suspicions, accusations, and intolerance, a
wave that invariably grows and is difficult to stop. This threat has been
hanging like a sword over our heads all the time. Internal and external
enemies of multi-national communities are aware of this and therefore they
organize their activity against multinational societies mostly by fomenting
national conflicts. At this moment, we in Yugoslavia are behaving as if we
have never had such an experience and as if in our recent and distant past we
have never experienced the worst tragedy of national conflicts that a society
can experience and still survive.

Equal and harmonious relations among Yugoslav peoples are a necessary
condition for the existence of Yugoslavia and for it to find its way out of
the crisis and, in particular, they are a necessary condition for its economic
and social prosperity. In this respect Yugoslavia does not stand out from the
social milieu of the contemporary, particularly the developed, world. This
world is more and more marked by national tolerance, national cooperation, and
even national equality. The modern economic and technological, as well as
political and cultural development, has guided various peoples toward each
other, has made them interdependent and increasingly has made them equal as
well [medjusobno ravnopravni]. Equal and united people can above all become a
part of the civilization toward which mankind is moving. If we cannot be at
the head of the column leading to such a civilization, there is certainly no
need for us to be at is tail.

At the time when this famous historical battle was fought in Kosovo, the
people were looking at the stars, expecting aid from them. Now, 6 centuries
later, they are looking at the stars again, waiting to conquer them. On the
first occasion, they could allow themselves to be disunited and to have hatred
and treason because they lived in smaller, weakly interlinked worlds. Now, as
people on this planet, they cannot conquer even their own planet if they are
not united, let alone other planets, unless they live in mutual harmony and
solidarity.

Therefore, words devoted to unity, solidarity, and cooperation among people
have no greater significance anywhere on the soil of our motherland than they
have here in the field of Kosovo, which is a symbol of disunity and treason.

In the memory of the Serbian people, this disunity was decisive in causing the
loss of the battle and in bringing about the fate which Serbia suffered for a
full 6 centuries.

Even if it were not so, from a historical point of view, it remains certain
that the people regarded disunity as its greatest disaster. Therefore it is
the obligation of the people to remove disunity, so that they may protect
themselves from defeats, failures, and stagnation in the future.

Unity brings Back Dignity

This year, the Serbian people became aware of the necessity of their mutual
harmony as the indispensable condition for their present life and further
development.

I am convinced that this awareness of harmony and unity will make it possible
for Serbia not only to function as a state but to function as a successful
state. Therefore I think that it makes sense to say this here in Kosovo, where
that disunity once upon a time tragically pushed back Serbia for centuries and
endangered it, and where renewed unity may advance it and may return dignity
to it. Such an awareness about mutual relations constitutes an elementary
necessity for Yugoslavia, too, for its fate is in the joined hands of all its
peoples.

The Kosovo heroism has been inspiring our creativity for 6 centuries, and has
been feeding our pride and does not allow us to forget that at one time we
were an army great, brave, and proud, one of the few that remained undefeated
when losing.

Six centuries later, now, we are being again engaged in battles and are facing
battles. They are not armed battles, although such things cannot be excluded
yet. However, regardless of what kind of battles they are, they cannot be won
without resolve, bravery, and sacrifice, without the noble qualities that were
present here in the field of Kosovo in the days past. Our chief battle now
concerns implementing the economic, political, cultural, and general social
prosperity, finding a quicker and more successful approach to a civilization
in which people will live in the 21st century. For this battle, we certainly
need heroism, of course of a somewhat different kind, but that courage without
which nothing serious and great can be achieved remains unchanged and remains
urgently necessary.

Six centuries ago, Serbia heroically defended itself in the field of Kosovo,
but it also defended Europe. Serbia was at that time the bastion that defended
the European culture, religion, and European society in general. Therefore
today it appears not only unjust but even unhistorical and completely absurd
to talk about Serbia's belonging to Europe. Serbia has been a part of Europe
incessantly, now just as much as it was in the past, of course, in its own
way, but in a way that in the historical sense never deprived it of dignity.
In this spirit we now endeavor to build a society, rich and democratic, and
thus to contribute to the prosperity of this beautiful country, this unjustly
suffering country, but also to contribute to the efforts of all the
progressive people of our age that they make for a better and happier world.

Let the memory of Kosovo heroism live forever!

Long live Serbia!

Long live Yugoslavia!

Long live peace and brotherhood among peoples!

This speech came at the culmination of a struggle in which millions of Serbs,
Gypsies, Hungarians, Jews, Turks and other ethnic groups opposed the racist
policies of the secessionist movement among Kosovo Albanians. For years the
fascistic secessionists had dominated Kosovo; their persecution of other
ethnic groups, especially Serbs and Romas ("Gypsies") is well documented; so
is the multi-ethnic character of the mass movement against that persecution.

What is so amazing about Milosevich's speech is he does not use the occasion
of addressing a MILLION people in Kosovo to advance a narrow ethnic agenda. He
does not at any point attack ethnic Albanians. Instead he calls for
reconciliation and mutual respect, citing the presence of different ethnic
groups as Serbia's strength. Of course the speech does celebrate the existence
of Serbia as a nation. But don't ALL national leaders celebrate the existence
of their nations? The important point is he celebrates it as a multi-ethnic
entity and that he never calls for attacks on non- Serbian territory. Indeed,
his point about the Kosovo Field battle of 1389 is that the Serbian army was
morally superior and therefore victorious even in defeat, a rather
sophisticated if melancholy viewpoint definitely over the head of the one-time
Rhodes Scholar who is now Hustler-in-Chief of our own poor (though
all-powerful) country.

By the way, if you know someone you'd like me to add to the list of people to
whom I send documents and analyses please send the email address to
jaredi@aol.com.

Thanks.

Jared Israel

PS Below is a letter I just sent the Independent, a British paper:

Dear editor:

In his May 3 letter Stuart Russell presents NATO's claims of massive Serbian
atrocities as proven and asserts government complicity because "We have yet to
hear any mention of Milosevic condemning, or even distancing himself from the
atrocities."

Milosevich told UPI on April 30th:

"We are not angels. Nor are we the devils you have made us out to be. Our
regular forces are highly disciplined. The paramilitary irregular forces are a
different story. Bad things happened... We have arrested those irregular
self-appointed leaders. Some have already been tried and sentenced to 20 years
in prison."

Proving innocence is harder than charging guilt. But consider: NATO and the
media have been exposed over 50 times lying and fabricating evidence (eg,
Jamie Rubin said on 3/30 that Pristina Stadium was being used to intern tens
of thousands; but when Agence France Presse reported the stadium had been
unused in weeks, Rubin simply denied having made the charge; NATO presented a
tape of a pilot bombing a refugee caravan only later to explain it was AN
EXAMPLE of such a tape (?!), Agence France Presse reported (4/24) an Amsterdam
reconnaissance expert's finding that NATO had doctored "mass grave" pictures,
etc, etc). If the prosecution is caught systematically lying and creating
evidence, shouldn't it be the one on trial?

Jared Israel

UPI's transcript of the Milosevic interview is for news, editorial,
and informational purposes only. Parties may only redistribute the
aforementioned UPI news if they attribute the text to UPI and carry
UPI's copyright and UPI credit lines.

Copyright 1999 by United Press International. All rights reserved.

Q What do you hope to get out of this?

President Milosevic: I find it hard to believe what is happening.
America is a great country and Americans great people. But your
leaders are not strategic thinkers. Short-term quick fixes, yes. They
said let's bomb Yugoslavia and then figure out what to do next. Some
said Milosevic would give up Kosovo after a few days of aggression
from the air. To set out to destroy a country for a pretext no one can
buy is simply unbelievable. I don't expect to get anything out of this
because I did not start it.

You may recall there were no refugees before March 24 when the NATO
aggression started. But the Clinton administration did expect to get
something out of this terrible decision. I understand you had two
general goals. One dealing with Europe, the other with the Balkans.
First is to prove U.S. leadership in Europe and the second to re-
establish U.S. leadership in NATO in the post-Cold War era.
Regretfully, we were targeted as a Guinea pig to achieve those goals.
Simply because of our weaknesses and of the internal problems we
faced.

But, as you know, you will find in at least 100 countries around the
world different ethnic separatist movements. If you decide to support
separatist movements it is very hard to believe any country can
survive. There are 4,000 ethnic groups in the world and only 185
members of the United Nations. In Yugoslavia, we have 26 different
ethnic groups. Any one of them could cause trouble if agitated from
the outside. Which is what happened in Kosovo. In Belgrade, we have
100,000 Yugoslav Albanians. And never a problem with them. Walk from
our Parliament building and you will see many shops with their
Albanian names. Not one window smashed here in all those years of
violence in Kosovo. Our people never considered them responsible for
the behavior of the so-called Kosovo Liberation Army terrorists.
In Kosovo, Albanian Kosovars were bigger victims of the KLA than
Kosovar Serbs. When we looked at the figures the number of Albanians
killed by them was twice as large as Serbs dead. They simply
terrorized Albanians to join their underground and impose their idea
of an ethnically pure state. That movement is Nazi in its character
because of their publicly declared goals of a racially pure state.
Where can you find such a state in the world today? It is precisely
the opposite of what is happening in the world. Ethnically mixed
states is the trend in the new global village. The Kosovar terrorists
were trying to reverse a global phenomenon.

Q Which you then attempted to do in Kosovo after March 24?

President Milosevic: Absolutely not. That is the big lie which,
repeated often enough, becomes conventional wisdom.

Q You are denying that your armed forces drove people out of their
homes and torched entire villages?

President Milosevic: We are not angels. Nor are we the devils you have
made us out to be. Our regular forces are highly disciplined. The
paramilitary irregular forces are a different story. Bad things
happened, as they did with both sides during the Vietnam war, or any
war for that matter. We have arrested those irregular self-appointed
leaders. Some have already been tried and sentenced to 20 years in
prison. We reinforced our forces after Rambouillet for a major
offensive against KLA terrorists, not to ethnically cleanse Kosovo as
was done with the expulsion of 500,000 Serbs from Croatia, which was
ignored by the world media. And the refugees were fleeing in panic
because of the war against the terrorists and also because of
disinformation horror stories being spread by the terrorists which
then became word of mouth and forced ever more people to join the
exodus.

Q Satellite recon shows entire villages torched?

President Milosevic: Individual houses, yes. But not whole villages as
we saw on TV in Vietnam when American forces torched villages
suspected of hiding Viet Cong.

Q Just in the past 10 years, the Soviet Union has become 15
independent republics. Four former republics of Yugoslavia have
declared their independence. Scotland and Wales are moving toward
self-rule. As we approach the next millennium, it is becoming
increasingly obvious that the nation-state is too big for small
problems -- and too small for big problems. Devolution is going on
everywhere. Why not in Kosovo? What is so important there?

President Milosevic: To us Kosovo is critically important because it is the
heart of country (sic) and an integral part of our long history. It is
also home to a quarter of million Serbs whose forebears have lived
there for centuries. It is also home to some 5,000 Christian churches.
A Swiss expert categorized 1,800 of them as historical monuments that
are the heritage of world civilization and that list was sent to
President Clinton.

Q After thousands of NATO strikes against Yugoslavia, most of your
country's communications and transportation networks, as well as your
petroleum production and storage capacity, have been largely destroyed,
along with your principal bridges, or about $100 billion worth of damage
and about 1,000 killed. Now NATO is raising the total number of warplanes
in action against you from 700 to 1,000. Are you prepared to see
Yugoslavia's entire infrastructure destroyed?

President Milosevic: We never thought we could defeat NATO,
an alliance of some 700 million people armed with the most advanced
and sophisticated weaponry in the world. But NATO believes it can pick
on a small nation and force us to surrender our independence. And that
is where NATO miscalculated. You are not willing to sacrifice lives to
achieve our surrender. But we are willing to die to defend our rights
as an independent sovereign nation.

The U.S. Congress is beginning to understand that bombing a country
into compliance is not a viable policy or strategy. I think your
strategic thinkers are also beginning to understand that missiles and
other sophisticated weapons will not always be the monopoly of
high-tech societies. And with the example it is now setting, we can
see the day when lesser nations will be able to retaliate. The
development of these weapons is taking place so fast there is not a
single spot on the planet that cannot be reached. America can be
reached from this part of the world. We have no quarrel with America.
We all know NATO is the strongest military machine in the world. We
simply want them to stop being so busy with our country and worry
about their own problems. NATO was formed to defend the western
democratic nations from totalitarian aggression, not to commit
aggression. We just want to be left alone and free.

Q At the cost of another month of bombing?

President Milosevic: Tell me, what choice do we have?

Q It seems to be that left alone is not an option in what you called a
global village. Doesn't your future lie with the European Union in an
increasingly integrated Europe? This will require compromise to end
this war. Surely the rest of Europe has a stake in what happens in
Yugoslavia. Doesn't EU have a role to play in this impasse? Isolation
is not an answer.

President Milosevic: Just the opposite. In fact, our policy has been
consistent on this front. We launched a series of initiatives with a
view to increasing integration in the Balkans. We had a highly
successful conference in Crete a year ago. I met with the Albanian
prime minister in an attempt to normalize relations completely with
open borders and freedom of movement, free trade and so forth. My
point to him was that borders in Europe were becoming irrelevant and
that we could not be holdouts against these trends. European countries
have no other choice than to cooperate and integrate. We had a
follow-up conference of all the southeastern European nations in
Istanbul.

I suggested to Bulgaria we do the same we had already done with
Macedonia, namely abolish customs duties and open borders for free
trade. The same was offered to Bosnia and all other states in the
region. With a very simple idea in mind. We are all market economies
now. In fact, Yugoslavia is a little bit ahead in this respect having
started before the collapse of the Soviet Union and communism. I told
all my neighbors that we could not afford to wait to enter EU one by
one in the years ahead. We had to do something together as a region
which would then facilitate joining the wider European enterprise
later but earlier than would otherwise be the case. Parallel with this
was the process of privatization which we started long before our
former communist neighbors. We privatized our telecommunications 18
months ago with Italian and Greek companies. Telecom Serbia is now 50
percent owned by foreign entities. Up and down the line our policy has
been one of integration, not isolation. Your policy has been to
isolate us and demonize us and get NATO to treat us as a pariah state.

Q After you walked away from the Rambouillet accords on Kosovo, did
you really expect more than a month of sustained bombing?

President Milosevic: Rambouillet was not a negotiation. It was a
Clinton administration diktat. It wasn't take it or leave it. Just
take it or else. We did not expect bombing. It was unbelievable to us
that even as an excuse that we didn't want to sign something that we
weren't even negotiating it would be used to bomb us as the Nazis did
in World War II. Rambouillet was a recipe for the independence of
Kosovo, which clearly we could not accept. Especially given the fact
that we never contemplated depriving Kosovar Albanians of their
legitimate rights. The proof is what happened when half a million
Serbs were forced out of Croatia. We never retaliated by expelling a
single Croat from Serbia. When Serbs were expelled from Bosnia, we
protected all our Muslims from retaliation. We never considered
Muslims in Yugoslavia were responsible for what happened in Bosnia. Of
course there were irresponsible Serb politicians in Bosnia making all
kinds of demagogic threats. But this was heated rhetoric. Foreign
visitors are invariably impressed at how we handle our unique
minorities problems. Go to Vojvodina in the north and see how the
Hungarian minority of 360,000 is treated - it after Hungary became a
member of NATO and has now offered its bases to American warplanes to
attack us. They have schooling in their own language, their own
newspapers and radio and TV programs. Twenty-six such communities
enjoy the same rights. There is no other way in such a diversified
society. It has been our philosophy from the very beginning. In Kosovo
as well. Equality was the basic principle in Kosovo. Without equality
between the two communities there would be no basis for durable peace.
That was our approach for Rambouillet. But the American approach was
to favorize the Albanian community. This could only lead to ethnic
cleansing of anyone who was not of Albanian origin. Serbs clearly
could not have stayed under the overlordship of Albanians. There are
250,000 Serbs in Kosovo and 200,000 Muslim Serbs who are not of
Albanian origin but whose families converted to Islam under the
Ottoman Empire. Then you have 150,000 Gypsies and 50,000 Turks. Even
this last community has its own newspaper and TV program. U.S.
diplomats knowledgeable about Kosovo have confirmed that we were
indeed respecting those principles. So I said to them, "OK, gentlemen,
now please put those principles into the Rambouillet agreement."
Equality means nothing unless incorporated into the institutions.

Q And how did you propose to do this in practice?

President Milosevic: Very simple. Takes only one minute to explain.
The parliament in Kosovo has to be composed of two houses. The lower
house elected on the basis of one-citizen one-vote and the other house
to be made up of national communities, with each community entitled to
five representatives. That way everyone is guaranteed against majority
domination. That way, too, Serbs could not impose anything on
Albanians and vice versa. When I talked to Ibrahim Rugova (the
moderate Kosovar Albanian leader), we agreed that it was in our common
interest to have real peace, welfare for all citizens, clean towns and
villages and develop industry. But at the back of the minds of Kosovar
Albanians is how to become the masters of the rest of the population.
Several decades ago when the Albanians had complete power in their
hands, they started a process of Albanization of the rest of the
population. Gypsies, for example, could not register newly born child
unless willing give it one of the officially recognized Albanian first
names. In Rambouillet, regardless of the fact that the delegations
never met, never exchanged so much as a single word, we had a
delegation in which Serbs were a minority. We had three Albanians,
Serb Muslims, Turks and four Serb Christians. Our delegation
represented a real cross-section of Kosovo. The Albanian Kosovars were
all representatives of the Albanian separatist movement. EU's dilemma
at the end of the 20th century is whether they are going to support a
multi-ethnic and multi-cultural society and multi- religious approach
to society or a kind of Nazi-like approach with one racially pure
ethnic group ruling a diverse society like Kosovo. Henry Kissinger
said Rambouillet was a mechanism for permanent creation of problems
and confrontation. President Clinton should have listened to this wise
geopolitical expert rather than some of his own less knowledgeable
advisers.

Q So how do we get out of this mess?

President Milosevic: A political process, not by more bombing.

Q But you must be prepared to compromise.

President Milosevic: From the beginning of April I have had five
meetings with Rugova. He was not a prisoner or under duress. This
week, the President of Serbia went to Pristina (the capital of Kosovo)
and he and Rugova signed a statement of agreed joint principles, which
called for respect for the equality of national communities, respect
for the equality of all citizens, direct negotiations, because U.S.
shuttle diplomacy was completely useless as Rambouillet demonstrated.
So we have ourselves begun a real political process. This first joint
statement with the Albanian Kosovar leader is the first joint victory
in our struggle for peace. At the same time we have been talking about
the formation of a temporary joint executive board for Kosovo composed
of representatives of all national communities in Kosovo. Its first
task will be to help refugees return home. The problem for returning
refugees will be bombing. So clearly this insanity will have to stop.
Before bombing, regardless of what you hear from NATO and Pentagon
briefings, there were no refugees. It wasn't only the Albanians who
fled, but also the Serbs, Turks, everyone.

Q Are you saying that the idea of a U.S. trusteeship or protectorate
is a non-starter in your mind?

President Milosevic: Please tell me why a U.N. protectorate is needed.
That is not to say we are against a U.N. mission. Before the war, we
accepted 2,000 verifiers from OSCE. It was OSCE's biggest ever
mission. We also had in Kosovo the International Red Cross and the
United Nations High Commission for Refugees, both with huge missions.
Plus 1,000 journalists from all over the world, with no restrictions.
Plus Kosovo Observation Diplomatic Mission run by Embassies from
Belgrade. All this in Kosovo. So who could say we were not open to the
international community? They were all free to verify what was
happening in this small territory. But this was abused.

Q How?

President Milosevic: Foreign diplomatic missions were to all intents
and purposes supporting KLA terrorists. Instructing them how to
organize and what to do to achieve their objectives. Also to create
something that would look more like a regular army. That way they were
told to create the kind of situation that would make it look to the
rest of the world that there was a war between the regular Yugoslav
army and the KLA. The KLA was then composed of different terrorist
groups. Just judge them by their acts. They were never able to attack
any military or police unit. Instead they were taking hostages and
killing civilians. One hundred and fifty hostages were never seen
again. They were planting car bombs and dynamiting supermarkets.
Classic terrorism.

Q Are you suggesting that since the U.N. and other international
organizations couldn't do anything before, you see no point in
bringing them back now?

President Milosevic: No, not at all. The U.N. can have a huge mission
in Kosovo if it wishes. They can bear witness to the legal behavior
of our law enforcement agencies and to the fact that everything is
now peaceful, that the KLA has ceased to exist except for scattered
small groups that can still stage ambushes.

Q Is it possible to have a U.N. presence without a U.N. peacekeeping
force?

President Milosevic: We cannot accept an occupation force, whether it
flies under a NATO or U.N. flag.

Q So you accept a U.N. peacekeeping force?

President Milosevic: Yes, but no army.

Q Without weapons?

President Milosevic: Self-defense weapons is normal, but no offensive
weapons. We cannot accept anything that looks like an occupation. The
idea behind Rambouillet was 28,000 troops, including 4,000 Americans,
who would be occupying Kosovo with tanks, APCs and heavy weaponry.
Kosovo has social and economic problems which an army of occupation
cannot alleviate. Aid, not arms, is what Kosovo needs.

Q So in your judgment what is the nature of a compromise between NATO
and Yugoslavia?

President Milosevic: I will tell you. Several points. First of all,
cessation of all military activities. Second, simultaneity between the
withdrawal of NATO troops now concentrated on our borders in Albania
and Macedonia, on the one hand, and the decrease of our own troops in
Kosovo from their present level of 100,000 to the normal garrison
strength of between 11,000 and 12,000, which was the regular Pristina
Corps.

Q You went from 40,000 to 100,000 troops in Kosovo since the bombing
started?

President Milosevic: Yes, because of the danger of aggression across
our borders by NATO forces. Every day we heard NATO voices urging
political leaders to order ground forces into action. But if the
danger of NATO aggression is over, we can send our troops back to
Serbia. Some are mobilized reservists and they are anxious to get back
to their regular jobs. Q How long would such a simultaneous withdrawal
take in your judgment?

President Milosevic: We can do it in one week.

Q And the third point?

President Milosevic: The return of all refugees, regardless of their
ethnic or religious affiliation.

Q And when would the U.N. peacekeeping force go in? Before the
refugees can return presumably.

President Milosevic: I don't like the word "force." We would welcome
U.N. mission not what "force" implies. There is no job for forces.
What would such forces do? Just ruin our roads with their tracked
vehicles. We would welcome anyone, any mission, that accepts to be our
guests. Their mission would be to observe that all is peaceful and not
to act as an occupation force. They can see that we are not
terrorizing anybody. Even now we are not terrorizing anybody. When the
U.N. is here they can bear witness that what we are saying is the
truth.

Q I assume you know that NATO will not accept your idea of a
compromise.

President Milosevic: Well, I don't know what NATO will accept. IF NATO
insists on the occupation of our country, we have no choice but to
defend ourselves against this further act of aggression.

Q If you wouldn't quibble about the word "force" for U.N.
peacekeepers, the end of hostilities could be speeded up.

President Milosevic: But I told you we are willing to accept a U.N.
presence and are ready to negotiate its composition. But please
understand that after all those crimes against our nation and its
people, we cannot accept representatives of the countries that
committed aggression against us. We would like to see representatives
of neutral countries.

Q Any further points?

President Milosevic: My fourth point is the political process. We will
continue direct negotiations with Mr. Rugova in the presence of the
international community. They can listen to every single word that is
spoken, but they cannot act as mediators. We want to achieve the
widest possible autonomy for Kosovo within Serbia.

So we must negotiate the composition of new institutions and the local
police. Before the war, there were 120 villages with elected Albanian
local police. Some were killed by KLA terrorists. My fifth point is
free access for UNHCR and the International Red Cross. Sixth, an
economic recovery plan for the three Yugoslav federation states that
have been heavily damaged by NATO aggression.

Q Back to the composition of U.N. peacekeepers, which you don't like
to call a force. Since NATO members are not acceptable, what would you
see to European participation as EU, not as individual NATO
countries.?

President Milosevic: There are European countries that are not members
of NATO, like Ireland, that would be acceptable.

Q Contingents from Russia, Ukraine and Belarus have also been
mentioned.

President Milosevic: They, too, would be acceptable.

Q Surely you are not prepared to face several more weeks of NATO
bombing as the diplomatic haggling continues.

President Milosevic: One more day is too much. But what choice do we
have if NATO insists on occupying Yugoslavia. To that we will never
surrender. We Serbs are as one on this life and death issue of
national honor and sovereignty.

Beograd (Tanjug) - Predsednik direkcije JUL profesor dr Mira Markovic dala je
intervju americkoj TV mrezi CBS. Razgovor sa novinarom Danom Raderom emitovan
je u emisiji "60 minuta", jednoj od najpoznatijih emisije te TV-mreze. Tanjug
prenosi sadrzinu intervjua:

Pitanje: Rekli ste da ima vrlo mnogo stvari koje Amerikanci ne razumeju u
citavoj ovoj stvari, u citavoj situaciji. Koje su to stvari koje Amerikanci ne
razumeju?

Odgovor: Mislim, pre svega, da Amerikanci ne znaju sve sto je potrebno da
znaju da bi mogli da razumeju. Ja bih iskoristila priliku koju imam da se
obratim americkim gradjanima i americkom narodu sa nadom da ce mi verovati sve
sto budem rekla. Nastojacu da budem kratka i jasna. Godine 1991. nekadasnja
Jugoslavija se raspala tako sto su spolja podstaknuti nacionalizmi kod svih
jugoslovenskih naroda. Kod svih jugoslovenskih naroda je formirana svest da
oni ne mogu da zive zajedno i da sreca pocinje tamo gde se oni budu rastali.
Ja, naravno, necu da kazem da su za to krivi samo oni izvan Jugoslavije. Oni
to ne bi mogli sami da u Jugoslaviji nisu nasli saveznike u nacionalistima kod
svih jugoslovenskih naroda. Taj nacin za rasturanje zemlje se pokazao kao vrlo
efikasan i zaista je najlakse rasturiti visenacionalnu zajednicu ako se
podstakne nacionalisticka sumnja i nacionalisticka mrznja medju pripadnicima
te zajednice. Posto se taj obrazac pokazao kao veoma efikasan, kada je u
pitanju nekadasnja Jugoslavija, on je primenjen i na ovu Jugoslaviju u toku
protekle godine. Iz raspada nekadasnje Jugoslavije svi su izvukli iskustvo.
Oni koji su kumovali raspadu nekadasnje Jugoslavije hteli su da taj princip
primene i na raspad ove zemlje, uvereni da ce i ova Jugoslavija da se raspadne
tako brzo i tako lako kako se raspala nekadasnja. Ali, i iz tog iskustva su i
ovi Jugosloveni izvukli neke pouke. Prva i najvaznija je pouka da ovu
Jugoslaviju nismo hteli tako lako da predamo kao sto smo to ucinili sa
nekadasnjom. Ovu Jugoslaviju smo odlucili da branimo. Obrazac za raspad ove
Jugoslavije trebalo je da bude podsticanje mrznje medju pripadnicima
nacionalnih manjina koje se nalaze u sastavu Jugoslavije. Najveca nacionalna
manjina su Albanci. Njima je sa strane, izvan Jugoslavije sistematski
formirana svest da ce oni moci da zive bolje ako se budu izdvojili iz
Jugoslavije sa teritorijom na kojoj zive i da su Srbi i Crnogorci, sa kojima
oni zive na toj teritoriji, izvor njihove nesrece. Ja moram da vam kazem da se
ja i nisam cudila Albancima sto su, da tako kazem, prihvatili tu zabludu.
Nekoliko godina ranije su u toj zabludi bili Srbi i Hrvati - da ne mogu da
zive srecno zajedno u Jugoslaviji. Pa, ako su Srbi i Hrvati mogli, tako da
kazem, da se nadju u toj zabludi, zasto ne bi mogli i Albanci. Kod Albanaca se
formirao jedan snazan separatisticki pokret sa teroristickim obelezjima koji
je imao finansijsku, vojnu, moralnu, politicku i svaku materijalnu pomoc sa
zapada. A moram da kazem, pre svega, od Amerike, zvanicne Amerike. Pre nego
sto se Amerika umesala u nas zivot u Jugoslaviji i na Kosovu, mi nismo imali
probleme. Americki narod treba da zna da nije istina da su Albanci u
Jugoslaviji bili narod druge kategorije. Americki narod treba da zna da u
Jugoslaviji zivi 28 nacija i nacionalnosti i da oni zive u medjusobno vecoj
harmoniji nego sto je harmonija u kojoj zive americki gradjani s obzirom na
pripadnost razlicitim rasama, religijama i tako odalje. Ova Jugoslavija je
sastavljena iz jako velikog broja naroda i narodnosti. Oni tako zive vekovima.
Ovo podrucje nikada nije bilo etnicki cisto, niti je to uopste moguce. Takvo
je balkansko poluostrvo celo. U svakoj balkanskoj zemlji ima jako mnogo
pripadnika susednih naroda. Ni Balkan ni Jugoslavija ne mogu da zive kao
etnicki cisto podrucje. A i zasto da zive? Nasa planeta je multietnicka. Svaka
zemlja treba da bude multietnicka. U tome je bogatstvo svake zemlje i u tome
je lepota svake zemlje. Ali, da se vratim na ono sto zelim da kazem za
americke gradjane. Amerika i zapad uopste, podstakli su Albance na separatizam
i na terorizam, a kada su Srbi pokusali da brane svoju teritoriju, onda su ih
optuzili za nasilnike i poveli su strasan medijski rat protiv srba, tvrdeci da
su oni varvari i da ugrozavaju jednu manjinu koja zivi na njihovoj teritoriji.
Ja sam znala, ja sam se plasila da ce posle tog medijskog rata i tog medijskog
nasilja nad Jugoslavijom poceti pravi oruzani rat. I tako je i bilo. Posto su
Srbi proglaseni za nasilnike, za agresore, onda se to proglasavanje upotrebilo
kao argument za nasilje nad Srbijom i nad Jugoslavijom. Ja zelim, dakle, da
kazem sledece: Niti su srbi na bilo koji nacin pokazivali nasilje nad
Albancima, niti smo imali bilo kakve probleme do pre godinu dana sa njima. Bar
ne neke ozbiljne, ali se u ime toga sto nije postojalo, vec vise od mesec dana
vrsi najstravicniji zlocin nad Jugoslavijom. Ja zelim da kazem da taj zlocin
predstavlja pre svega svakodnevno, ili da budem preciznija, svakonocno
ubijanje ljudi i sadisticko razaranje zemlje. Za ovih mesec i nekoliko dana u
Jugoslaviji je, a narocito u Srbiji, ubijeno mnogo dece, beba, mnogo ljudi,
moram da kazem, na spavanju. Nikad nisam videla takav rat u kome se ljudi
ubijaju nocu dok spavaju. Bombe padaju na skole i na obdanista. Padaju na
bolnice. Jedna od prvih je ostetila porodiliste. U Jugoslaviji su unisteni
skoro svi mostovi. Veliki broj fabrika, a narocito onih fabrika od kojih
zavisi nas zivot. Jedan veliki broj ljudi je ostao bez kuca. Nasa zemlja je
blizu toga da bude razorena. A broj zrtava, medju kojima je kao i u svakom
ratu najvise zena i dece, znacemo, na zalost, tek mnogo kasnije. Jugoslavija
je izlozena najvecim mogucim patnjama. Ja moram da vam kazem da ne mogu da
verujem da americki narod to sve zna i to odobrava. Ovo jako podseca na ono
sto se desilo jevrejima '30-ih godina ovog veka. Nemacka vlast je proglasila
jevreje pocetkom '30-ih godina za glavne krivce za ekonomsku krizu u kojoj se
nemacka nasla. To, naravno, nije bilo tacno. To je, naravno, bilo suludo. Ali,
jevreji su platili zabludu te lazi i tog ludila. Citavo covecanstvo leci rane
zbog te zablude i zbog tog ludila vec skoro pola veka. Sada se nalazimo u
samom srcu ponovljenog tog ludila. Srbima je, kao nekad Jevrejima, pripisan
zlocin koji nisu ucinili. U ime toga vrsi se zlocin nad njima.

Pitanje: Sada predsednik Klinton i vodje drugih 18 nacija tvrde da su Albanci
u onoj situaciji u kojoj su bili Jevreji u '30-im godinama, a ne da je obrnuta
situacija, kako ste vi rekli.

Odgovor: Oni to tvrde zato sto su zatvorili svoje zemlje medijski da do
naroda, gradjana njihovih zemalja ne prodre istina. Kad ne bi postojala
medijska blokada u zemljama u kojima se tvrdi to sto ste sad rekli da se
tvrdi, onda bi se pokazalo da je obratno. Onda bi se videlo da je tacno ono
sto ja govorim. Neka puste svoj medije, TV i novine da prenesu sve sto se
dogadja ovde u Jugoslaviji i onda ce gradjani tih zemalja znati o cemu se
radi. Secam se, svi smo citali kako je posle rata nemacka drzava, zapadna
Nemacka govorila svojoj omladini kako se u krematorijumima u kojima su
izgoreli Jevreje prao ves, da su sluzili kao vesernice. mi smo otvoreni. Moze
da dodje ko god hoce i vidi sto god hoce. Ali, zapadne zemlje koje vrse
agresiju nad Jugoslavijom ne dopustaju svojim gradjanima da vide sta se u
Jugoslaviji dogadja. Pa molim vas, ja sam nedavno procitala, cula od nekoga na
nekim vestima, da jugoslovenski, srpski vojnici siluju decu na Kosovu. Pa to
moze da kaze samo neko ko nema pojma o istoriji. Srpski vojnici su najcasniji
vojnici na svetu. Ne samo sto su hrabri, nego im je ceo svet, kroz sve ratove
koje su vodili, priznavao upravo to i tako razvijeno osecanje casti i odnosa
prema neprijatelju. To je zapisano u svakoj istoriji. To nisam ja izmislila
danas ovde ili iznela neko svoje misljenje. To je nasa tekovina. Vi ovde imate
tri pilota. Nista im nije falilo i nece im ni faliti. A treba da znate da su
ti piloti bombardovali decu na spavanju u ovoj zemlji. Ne znam kako bi ti
piloti prosli u nekoj drugoj zemlji.

Pitanje: Rekli ste da Amerika i Zapad ne shvataju sta se dogadja na Kosovu jer
nema etnickog ciscenja na Kosovu.

Odgovor: Ne. Nikakvog.

Pitanje: Nema zverstava koje cine Srbi na Kosovu?

Odgovor: Srbi brane teritoriju. Da vam kazem nesto. Sta to znaci zverstvo. Pa
rat je zverstvo. Za mene je svaki rat zverstvo. Ja sve ratove na svetu gledam
drugacije od vas. Prvo, zato sto sam ja zena, ja sam protiv svakog rata na
svetu i onih koji su bili i onih koji ce biti. Zatim, zato sto sam ja
levicarka. Pravi levicari su protiv rata. I, zato sto sam ja, kako da kazem,
pametna i obrazovana na jedan novi i moderan nacin.

Pitanje: Rat je strasan. Rat je pakao. Ali, u ratu civilizovani ljudi se veoma
trude da ne ubijaju civile, da ne proteruju ljude iz njihovih domova?

Odgovor: To je bilo nekad. U ranijim vekovima ljudi su taj princip zasnovali.
Nekadasnji ratnici. Nekako za vreme krstaskih ratova verujem da su ovako
prolazile zene i deca kako prolaze ovih noci za vreme natovskog bombardovanja
Jugoslavije. Mi lice naseg neprijatelja nikada nismo videli. Neko sedi u
svojoj sobi, pije koka-kolu i pritiska na dugme i odabira mete na koje ce da
baca bombe. I baca ih na bolnice, na obdanista, na skole, na decu, na mostove,
na fabrike. To je nova vrsta rata. Mozda smo mi nuzno dosli do te vrste rata.
Ratovi su se razvijali od strele i luka pa, evo, do ovih projektila koji iz
neke udobne sobe pogadjaju i ubijaju ljude. Mozda ima u tome neceg, dobrog u
celom ovom jadu. Mozda je dobro sto ce ljudi shvatiti da je to, mozda, stop
ratu zauvek. Toliko se razvila tehnologija rata ili ratna nauka, da tako
kazem, da je ugrozila citavu planetu. Luk i strela nisu mogli da dovedu u
pitanje egzistenciju planete. Ili puske ili tenkovi.

Pitanje: Da se vratim na ubistva civila. Da li su se takve stvari, ubistva
civila dogadjala na kosovu?

Odgovor: Ja ne verujem da su to radili i gotovo sam sigurna da to nisu radili.
Zasto ne bismo mogli da postavimo i obratno pitanje - da li je "OVK", kako ona
sebe zove, to radila srpskom stanovnistvu. Neke vojske to rade. Ja, inace,
mislim da su najvece zrtve svakog rata siromasni ljudi, zene i deca, ali,
budite sigurni, srpski vojnici nisu silovali Albanke. Ne verujem da su dirali
albansku decu. To nije u genima ovog naroda koji je celog zivota, tokom
citavog svog istorijskog zivota ziveo kao vojnicki narod. I nikada nismo
vodili druge ratove osim oslobodilackih. Nikada nismo nikoga napali. Celog
zivota smo se samo branili. To pise u svakom udzbeniku istorije. Ovo ne
govorim ja kao Srpkinja, nego vam govorim ja kao intelektualka koja zna
istoriju. Nasa vojska je bila veoma ponosita kroz citavu svoju istoriju. I
vrlo hrabra. I u meri u kojoj vojska to moze da bude, veoma plemenita. Nasa
vojska ume da bude gladna, ume da bude zedna, ume da nosi umor, ume da ne
pokaze strah. Pravo da vam kazem, prvi put sam u svom zivotu zazalila sto mi
nismo veliki narod. Veliki brojcano. Zato sto mislim da smo po strukturi svog
nacionalnog bica veliki narod. Narod je veliki onoliko koliko je human, koliko
ima razumevanja i postovanja prema drugim ljudima, koji je spreman da im
pomogne cak i na svoju sopstvenu stetu. Kao i covek, narod je veliki onoliko
koliko se razvija u civilizaciji ili istoriji, koliko se udaljio od animalnog,
plemenskog, varvarskog. Srbi su jedan istorijski narod, jedan od najstarijih
evropskih naroda i jedan od najrazvijenijih slovenskih naroda. Srbi su sve,
samo nisu varvari. Na protiv. Htela bih da iskoristim ovu priliku koju imam da
vam kazem, vama koji sa mnom razgovarate i citavom americkom narodu da ako
americka drzava ima neku potrebu, koju ja, doduse, ne razumem, da manifestuje
svoju veliku tehnolosku, tehnicku, vojnu, politicku moc, neka je manifestuje
na nekom sebi ravnom. Neka izabere pravog partnera. Ako treba da se ratuje, a
ja mislim da ne treba, neka Amerika ratuje sa partnerom koji je dostojan njene
vojne i tehnoloske snage. U najmanju ruku nema smisla da partneri Americi u
ratu budu mali narodi, nerazvijeni i siromasni. Americke bombe ili Nato bombe
su padale, kao sto znate, na Somaliju, na Sudan, na Haiti, na Avganistan. To
ne samo sto nije posteno, moram da kazem da nije ni mnogo junacki. To je kao
kada bi neki covek u najboljim godinama, neki muskarac od 40 godina uzeo da
tuce decaka od deset godina.

Pitanje: Istorija je vazna, slazem se. Kako ce ovo da se zavrsi?

Odgovor: Odluka nije u nasim rukama nego u vasim. Mi svoju zemlju moramo da
branimo kao sto to cini svaka zemlja na svetu. Ne znam nijednu zemlju koja ne
bi zastitila svoju teritoriju koju neko zeli da oduzme. Kada bi neki deo,
recimo SAD, na kome zivi veliki broj hispano-americkog stanovnistva, to
stanovnistvo htelo da odvoji od SAD mislim da SAD ne bi sedele skrstenih ruku.
To bi bilo normalno i gradjanima SAD i svim gradjanima na svetu. Tako postupa
svaka drzava. Zasto to odjednom ne vazi samo za moju? Zasto vi mislite da mi
treba skrstenih ruku da sedimo i cekamo kako nam neko oduzima deo teritorije?
Dakle, uradili smo najobicniju stvar. Ili, u najboljem slucaju to nije ni
trebalo da bude predmet paznje nikoga izvan naseg zemlje. Ali, u toku je, kako
da kazem, jedno sadisticko bombardovanje Jugoslavije. Kao sto je nekad bilo
sadisticko unistavanje Jevreja u koncentracionim logorima. I to treba da se
zaustavi. Ta odluka nije u nasim rukama. Mi ne bombardujemo nikoga. Amerika i
Nato, koji je pod najvecim uticajem Amerike, koji bombarduju Jugoslaviju,
treba da donesu takvu odluku.

Pitanje: Svi argumenti koji se navode kao razlog za bombardovanje jesu da se
spreci, da se zaustave Srbi da vise ne ubijaju i ne proteruju Albance sa
Kosova.

Odgovor: Ali ne ubijaju. I ne proteruju ih.

Pitanje: Da ne ubijaju ...

Odgovor: Pa to je kao da mi kazete da je danas sreda, a danas je subota. Ako
razgovarate sa mnom onda je elementarna pretpostavka da mi verujete. Ne bih
vas ja lagala. Ja sam iz ove zemlje, ja sam Jugoslovenka. Ja volim sve ljude
koji zive u Jugoslaviji. Razgovarate sa nekim koji ima tu reputaciju u ovoj
zemlji. Ja nisam nisam mrzela ni Hrvate, ni Albance, ni Slovence, ni
Muslimane. Na protiv, ja zalim za onom Jugoslavijom. Ona jugoslavija je bila
najlepsa zemlja na svetu. Ne zato sto je moja, nego zato sto je ona bila
obrazac po kome je trebalo urediti Evropu u 21.veku. Tamo su ziveli pripadnici
raznih naroda i raznih religija. Ziveli su ljudi i najrazlicitijeg etnickog
porekla. Svi su oni bili Jugosloveni. Ja sam vaspitana kao Jugoslovenka. Pravo
da vam kazem ja sam u stvari mondijalista. To je moje generalno opredelenje.
Nema govora da ja imam rezervu prema bilo kom narodu. Naprotiv. Prema svim
jugoslovenskim narodima ja osecam duboku ljubav i tako se oseca citava moja
generacija. Mi smo tako vaspitani. Ako mi se nesto dopada u Americi, sada cu
da vam kazem. Onda se ona dopadala meni i mnogim intelektualcima u
Jugoslaviji, citavoj mojoj generaciji, generacijama posle moje, zbog toga sto
je ona bila tako multietnicka, multinacionalna, sto su tu mogli da zive
zajedno portorikanci i irci i nemci i japanci i beli i zuti i crveni itd. I
svi Amerikanci. U tome je Amerika bila jako slicna Jugoslaviji i Jugoslavija
Americi. Citavo vreme sam mislila da bi jedna takva drzava, kakva je Amerika,
zbog multietnickog, multikonfesionalnog sastava, trebala da pruzi moralnu i
istorijsku podrsku Jugoslaviji, koja joj je vrlo slicna. Povodom, onoga sto
sam rekla da nema smisla da partneri velikoj Americi budu mali narodi, male
zemlje, narocito nema smisla da to bude Jugoslavija. Evo zbog cega. Za
poslednjih deset godina moja zemlja je prosla kroz nekoliko velikih trauma, od
kojih je samo jedna dovoljna da potpuno destabilizuje i pojedinca i drzavu.
Prvo je doslo do promene drustvenog sistema 1990. godine. Ukinut je
socijalizam i uvedeno drustvo sa trzisnom privredom i parlamentarnim zivotom.
Zatim, doslo je do rata. U Bosni, u Hrvatskoj, u kome je srpski narod pomagao
svoj narod izvan zemlje matice, doduse kao sto je i hrvatski narod pomagao
svoj narod u Bosni, koji je bio izvan zemlje matice. To je dosta iscrpelo
Jugoslaviju, Srbiju pre svega. Zatim, uvedene su nam sankcije. Zatim je u
Jugoslaviju dosao veliki broj izbeglica. Ja mislim da ih ima otprilike milion
izbeglica. Nasih stanovnika ima oko devet miliona. Pa, znate li sta znaci
milion izbeglica na devet miliona stanovnika. Eto koliko nam se trauma desilo
odjednom. Mi smo jako iscrpljeni. Povesti rat protiv jednog malog naroda i
ovako iscpljenog ekonomski i socijalno, zaista je ne samo necasno nego je i
gotovo nerazumno. Stalno mi je u glavi ovih dana, kako sam u svom kabinetu na
fakultetu imala godinama jedan plakat americkog vojnika. To je onaj cuveni
plakat, americki vojnik koji gine u vijetnamu. To je, kako da kazem bio jedan
od najlepsih simbola besmisla rata, koji je trajao nekoliko godina. Pri tom je
gotovo unisten vijetnamski narod ali je u tome izgubilo zivote jako mnogo
americkih vojnika. Pitam se koliko ce vremena proci pre nego sto se ponovo
pojavi u Americi ili svetu neki takav plakat. Sa istim ili nekim drugim
povodom - zasto smo ubijali jedan mali narod koji je vec bio prethodno ranjen,
sa ranama koje sam vec pomenula, koji u udzbenicima svih istorija u svetu ima
reputaciju hrabrog, oslobodilackog, postenog i cestitog naroda. Mi nismo cak
ni osvetoljubivi. Najvece, kako da kazem, istorije vremena odredile su se po
nama, sukobljavale. Ali mi ne nosimo mrznju. Pet vekova smo bili pod Turcima.
Pre nego sto su Turci dosli, Srbija je bila jedna vrlo razvijena monarhija.
Upravo je bila dosla u fazu prosvecenog feudalizma. Robovanje pod Turcima nas
je zaustavilo u razvoju kao, naravno, i druge narode koji su bili pod turskom
okupacijom. Ali verujte Srbi ne mrze Turke. U nasoj narodnoj muzici ima jako
mnogo turske muzike, turskih zvukova, ima mnogo turcizama u nasem jeziku.
Nemci su i u Prvom i u Drugom svetskom ratu cuda napravili u Jugoslaviji. U
prvom su takoreci istrebili musko stanovnistvo. U drugom, Jugoslavija je bila
jedna od najvecih zrtava fasisticke agresije. Izgubili smo milion i 700
hiljada stanovnika. Poceli smo sa njima ekonomsku saradnju odmah posle rata.

Pitanje: Zbog toga je jos teze Amerikancima da shvate ono sto se dogadja na
kosovu danas.

Odgovor: Ali ne dogadja se to sto kazete. Zato zelim da iskoristim ovu
priliku, ako budete preveli sve onako kako sam vam rekla, ja zaista zelim da
porucim celom americkom narodu i svim gradjanima Amerike da Srbi nisu agresori
nad albanskim narodom, da to nije tacno. Jedina agresija koja se vrsi ovde je
nad srpskim narodom od strane Nato i Amerike. Jugoslavija brani svoju
teritoriju. Albanci se nikada ne bi ni pobunili da napuste Jugoslaviju,
odnosno da izdvoje teritoriju na kojoj zive ti Albanci sa Srbima, da ih nisu
podstakli spolja. Pazite, zasto bih ja uopste pristala na razgovor ako ne bih
bila sigurna u ono sto vam govorim. Nisam ja izasla pred lice celog sveta da
lazem.

Pitanje: Zasto ste se odlucili za ovaj intervju? Nikada inace i niste imali
intervjue na TV.

Odgovor: Ja nikada nisam dala intervju na TV. Ovo je moj prvi intervju. Zato
sto ste me vi ubedili. Zato sto ste bili tako ljubazni, zato sto sam imala
poverenja u vas i zato sto se nadam da necete da me prevarite i da necu da se
pokajem sto sam dala ovaj intervju. Ja, inace, nikada ne dajem intervjue. Ni u
svojoj zemlji ni van svoje zemlje, zato sto se plasim TV.

Pitanje: Ali vi isto tako vrlo mnogo osecate zbog ove situacije.

Odgovor: Kako ne bih osecala. Moja zemlja je izlozena najstravicnijem
razaranju u poslednjoj deceniji 20. veka. Toliko je ljudi poginulo, bolnice su
pune ljudi koji ostaju bez ruku i bez nogu. Pazite, to nisu vojnici, nego
civili. Mada i tu moram da kazem da ja imam jedan drugaciji ugao gledanja od
svih vas koji kazete, mi ne odvajamo civile od vojnika. I vojnici su ljudi.
Vojnici su nasi gradjani, oni su nasa deca. Sta mislite koliko godina imaju
vojnici? Od 20 do 30! Strasno je koliko ima povredjenih ljudi koji su stradali
nocu dok su spavali. Studenti ne idu na fakulteta, rade samo fabrike koje nisu
srusene. Da li zna americka nacija da mi necemo moci da prelazimo sa jedne
obale na drugu jer su sruseni mostavi. Moracemo da pravimo skele. Da li se sve
ovo sto se dogadja u Jugoslaviji dogadja sa znanjem i sa podrskom americkog
naroda. Posle drugog svetskog rata, narocito od sezdesetih godina i nadalje,
generacije koje su tada isle u skolu i obrazovale se, moram da kazem da su
bile pod velikim uticajem americke kulture i americkog sistema vrednosti. Mi
smo tada bili izbaceni iz ovog socijalistickog bloka kao revizionisti, kao
nedovoljno disciplinovana socijalisticka zemlja i sticajem mnogih okolnosti mi
smo bili okrenuti ka zapadu - u velikoj meri prema Americi. Mislim na americku
kulturu, na knjizevnost, narocito na americku kinematografiju. Taj trag
americkog nacina misljenja i americke kulture je veoma prisutan kod generacija
koje su se radjale posle '50-ih godina u Jugoslaviji. Mi mislimo da veoma
dobro poznajemo americki narod upravo zbog toga smo smo imali vrlo razvijenu
tu komunikaciju kulturnu i medijsku sa americkom drzavom i sa americkim
nacinom misljenja. Imajuci u vidu to sto mi znamo Ameriku na osnovu onoga sto
je kao americko dopiralo do nas, sve drugo smo ocekivali od Amerikanaca osim
ovog sto se desilo. Ocekivali smo veliku podrsku zbog svog multietnickog
sastava koji jako lici na multietnicki sastav Amerike. Ocekivali smo duboku
privrzenost Amerike nasoj zajednickoj borbi protiv fasizma u drugom svetskom
ratu. Licno sam bila ubedjena da se Amerika nije mnogo umesala ni u raspad
Jugoslavije '91. godine. Mislim da su ti impulsi za raspad one Jugoslavije
dosli sa neke druge zapadne, ali ne sa americke strane.

Pitanje: Kao na primer kojih?

Odgovor: Razvijenih zapadnih zemalja. Pa nisu sigurno dosli iz Nepala i
Butana.

Pitanje: Govorite o Nemcima?

Odgovor: Ne bih zaista mogla da kazem da su to Nemci. Nekako, ne znam da li su
se Nemci umesali u to '91. ali, ja kazem da bih zelela da nisu. Tako bih
volela da nisu. Ali, recicu vam ovo. Kako ja mislim da bi Amerika, s obzirom
da je sada najveca i najjaca drzava na svetu, imperija savremenog sveta, ja
mislim da bi Amerika, s obzirom na tu svoju poziciju u savremenom svetu,
trebalo da igra sasvim suprotnu ulogu od ove koju igra. To ogromno bogatstvo
koje ima, tehnolosku superiornost kojom raspolaze, ogromna naucna dostignuca
koja koristi, trebalo bi da upotrebi na pomoc onima koji su manji, siromasni,
koji zive tesko. Osiono su mogle da se ponasaju imperije u 12. veku i u 15. da
svoju moc koriste za ponizavanje i potcinjavanje onih koji su slabiji. Ali,
1999. godine, onaj ko je mocan i bogat sa moralne i sa civilizacijske tacke
gledista ima duznost da pomogne onima koji su slabiji, da bude nosilac dobra,
da se bori protiv zla. Tako ja vidim istorijsku i civilizacijsku ulogu
imperije, bez obzira koja je to imperija. Amerika je mogla da odigra jednu
divovsku misiju u savremenom svetu, da zastiti slabe, da pomogne siromasnima,
da doprinese povezivanju naroda i ljudi, da svoj multietnicki obrazac zivota
afirmise kao plemenitost, da nastoji da poveze ljude na planeti svilenim
koncima, a ne gvozdenim lancima. Ja sam protivnik novog svetskog poretka.
Svaki imperator od Cezara do danas je zeleo da uvede novi svetski poredak i
svaki je to zeleo da ucini pomocu najstravicnijeg nasilja i pomocu
najsurovijeg oruzja kojim je covecanstvo u tom trenutku raspolagalo. Poslednji
put je te cudovisne reci "novi svetski poredak" pomocu gasnih komora hteo da
realizuje Hitler. I niko nije uspeo da poveze ljude na taj nacin. Mi cemo svi
ziveti na planeti kao zajednickoj domovini i svet ce zaista biti jednog dana
globalno selo kada se ljudi budu medjusobno povezivali svilenim koncima i kada
se svi ljudi i svi narodi budu tretirali ravnopravno.

Pitanje: Profesore, kada vas cujem kako govorite, mislim da svakako znate da
ima mnogo ljudi, ukljucujuci tu mnoge ljude u Americi ali ne samo u Americi,
koji vide vaseg muza predsednika kao novog Hitlera.

Odgovor: Reagujem na to kao kada bismo sad rekli da je sada mesec januar i da
pada sneg. A kao sto vidite, danas je 1. maj i cveta jorgovan. Da bi bio
Hitler, mora da ispunjava uslove koji bi ga identifikovali sa Hitlerom. Znaci
da je nosilac organizovane mrznje prema nekom narodu i organizovanog nasilja
prema nekom narodu, da se umnozavaju, da se sire, da prete sve vecem broju
naroda i rasa, da ugrozavaju egzistenciju covecanstva. To su kategorije pomocu
kojih se mogu identifikovati Hitler i fasizam. Moj muz niti mrzi neki narod,
niti vrsi nasilje nad njim. Ali, mozete mi neverovati. Mozete misliti da ne
govorim istinu kada kazem da nekog ne mrzim. Moze biti da sam vas u tome
prevarila, iako nisam. Ali, ne vrsi nasilje ni nad jednim narodom, niti to
nasilje preti da se siri na neke druge narode, niti ugrozava ni regionalni
ambijent u kome mi zivimo, a pogotovo ne ugrozava nase doba i nasu epohu kao
sto je to svojevremeno cinio Hitler. Niti nosilac svih tih zala moze da bude
sef jedne male drzave i jednog malog naroda toliko ranjenog u protekloj
deceniji koji u ovom trenutku raspolaze samo velikom, ogromnom moralnom snagom
da sebe zastiti od nasilja koje nad njim vrsi 19 najrazvijenijih svetskih
zemalja. Verujte mi, proglasiti jedan narod i njegovog predsednika koji su
predmet agresije 19 najrazvijenijih svetskih sila za opasnost za covecanstvo
zvuci kao najveci moralni, politicki i logicki cinizam. Kada bi se ukinula
politicka cenzura, u zemljama u kojima se ovako predstavljaju prilike u
Jugoslaviji, bojim se da bi se sve vrlo brzo zavrsilo kao u nekim americkim
filmovima. Iz vasih filmova smo naucili to da se neko ko je na pocetku
proglasen losim momkom, nasilnikom, negativnom licnoscu, do kraja filma pokaze
kao hrabar i cestit covek. Uloge koje su na pocetku filma date - pozitivne i
negativne, do kraja filma se promene, dodje do rokade pa onaj ko je bio na
startu negativan, na kraju se pokaze da je pozitivan, a onaj koga je optuzivao
za negativno se na kraju pokaze da je sam to bio. To je lajtmotiv svakog vaseg
filma. Otvorite televizije i novine kao sto su otvorene u ovoj zemlji i bice
lakse i nama i vama. Htela sam na kraju nesto da vam kazem kao profesor
univerziteta. Druga polovinia 20. veka se smatra periodom u razvoju
covecanstva u kome je najvise doslo do napretka nauke i tehnologije. Sve
zajedno sto je covecanstvo postiglo do druge polovine 20. veka je manje od
onoga sto je covecanstvo postiglo za ovih nekoliko decenija. Svrha tih
ogromnih napora u razvoju nauke i tehnologije bila je da ljudi zive bolje, da
zivot bude duzi, da se savladaju bolesti, da ne bude siromasnih ljudi, da ne
bude neobrazovanih ljudi, da skole budu dostupne svoj deci, da se smanje
razlike medju ljudima, medju rasama, medju narodima, medju klasama, medju
polovima, narocito medju polovima, te su razlike najvece. Jednom recju, sav
smisao razvoja nauke i tehnologije je bio da ljudski zivot bude lepsi, da
covek zivi srecnije. Ovog proleca 1999. svim obrazovanim ljudima na svetu je
jasno da su najveca dostignuca nauke i tekovine stavljene umesto u funkciju
dobra, u funkciju zla. Zemlje koje vrse agresiju nad Jugoslavijom su
najrazvijenije zemlje na svetu. One raspolazu najvecim dostignucima u oblasti
prirodnih nauka i tehnickih nauka i tehnologije. I sva ta dostignuca su
stavljena u funkciju ubijanja i razaranja. To je veliko ponizenje za nauku. To
je ogroman udarac svim velikim stvaralackim naporima koje je covecanstvo
cinilo u drugoj polovini 20. veka sa ciljem da ljudi zive bolje. Nato je
zloupotrebio najvise dostignuce u oblasti nauke da bi unistavao jedan mali
narod da su sva ta dostignuca u oblasti fizike i hemije i mehanike ali i
astronomije, bila potrebna da se nadju na jednom mestu da bi se iz neke udobne
stolice bacale bombe na obdanistan.

Pitanje: Komandant snaga Nato i drugi kazu da se tehnologija koristi da bi se
odbranili ljudi bez odbrane, a to su Kosovari, i da se zbog toga nauka koristi
za plemeniti cilj.

Odgovor: Prvo je ono sto sam vam rekla na pocetku, da ljudi koje oni brane
nisu ugrozeni. Oni su ugrozeni sad jer, nauka jos nije napredovala toliko da
bombe sa neba mogu da razlikuju ko je Srbin a ko Albanac. Padaju i po jednima
i po drugima. Albanci su ugrozeni i od bombi i oni se sada prvi put
iseljavaju. Tacno je - iseljavaju se. ali, molim vas, recite americkom narodu
- iseljavaju se i Srbi. Svako se iseljava. Da padaju bombe ovde, zar biste vi
sedeli i sa mnom vodili razgovor. Ne. Izasli biste na vrata. Pa ko normalan
sedi i ceka da bombe padaju na njega. Sve zivo sto moze bezi od bombi. Prema
tome, ta dostignuca kojima se oni hvale da ih koriste u odbrani jednog naroda
koji je ugrozen, nisu usmerena ni na kakve humane svrhe, jer taj narod nije
ugrozen a drugo, cak i kada bi bio ugrozen, valjda postoje druga sredstva
dostojna 1999. da se odnosi medju ljudima rasprave. Da li vi, stiteci jednog,
treba da ubijete drugog, da ga ubijete dotle da ne postoji? Ja se ponovo
vracam na Jevreje. To je taj koncept. Jevreji ugrozavaju Nemce. Treba da
unistimo sve Jevreje do bebe u kolevci. Covecanstvo se jednom odredilo prema
takvom konceptu odmazde i zastite. Ja vam tvrdim da su na Kosovu Albanci i
Srbi i Crnogorci i Turci... na balkanskom poluostrvu ziveli zajedno i ziveli
bi zajedno slozno jos hiljadu godina da nije bilo dusebriznika izvan Kosova
koji su hteli da, u stvari, unesu zlo i razdor medju njima.

Pitanje: Prolazi vam vreme. Dosta smo govorili ranije. Pisano je o vama da ste
vi oci i usi predsednika i glavni savetnik predsednika. Da li je to tacno?

Odgovor: Ne.

Pitanje: Kako to ide, kako to funkcionise? Vi ste oboje aktivni drustveni
radnici, vi ste muz i zena, vi ste roditelji. Kako to sve zajedno funkcionise?

Odgovor: Ne umem da se snadjem kada mi ta pitanja licno postavljate. Ali, evo,
reci cu vam. Mi smo porodica u kojoj postoji veliki stepen unutrasnje
bliskosti i velike privrzenosti izmedju nas i nase dece. Mi smo jedna porodica
u kojoj postoji visoko razvijeno osecanje unutrasnje pripadnosti. Mi se
medjusobno jako volimo. Moj muz je jako privrzen meni i nasoj deci. Ja,
takodje njemu i nasoj deci i nasa deca nama. Mi smo jedna, da tako kazem, vrlo
porodicna porodica. Postoje individualnosti u razumevanju svega medju nama.
Ali, u sustini, u bitnim moralnim i politickim stvarima mi se slazemo. Ja,
naravno, dajem prednost moralnim vrednostima, etickim vrednostima nad
politickim vrednostima. U onom sto je temelj etickog nas cetvoro smo
medjusobno jako bliski i uvek u istoj zoni. Ali, nemojte precenjivati moj
uticaj na mog muza ni njegov na mene.

Pitanje: Prema tome, da li je tacno ili nije tacno da ste vi politicka snaga
iza predsednika.

Odgovor: Ne, nisam. Izvinite, ne prihvatam da sam bilo iza cega. Ja sam sama i
cela i nista ne realizujem preko muza. To je obrazac zivota u braku i u
porodici veoma prevazidjen, veoma konzervativan, veoma starinski. Ja sam vrlo
samosvesna osoba i ono sto mislim ja to javno kazem i ono za sta se zalazem,
ja to cinim javno i direktno a ne preko drugog. Ja niti zelim da stojim iza
nekog niti zelim da neko stoji iza mene. Preuzimam rizik svojih nedostataka i
sama snosim odgovornost za sve sto mislim i sve sto radim. Da takva budu,
vaspitala sam svoju decu, a narocito svoje zensko dete. Uzgred, kad sam vec
kod zenskog deteta, htela bih da vam kazem. Nato je medju prvim metama imao
omladinsku radio stanicu i jednu TV koja je tek pocela da se radja a koja
pripada mojoj cerki. Moja cerka je na tom omladinskom radiju pustala dosta
zapadne muzike i americke, jer je to generacijska muzika. Ta "Kosava" je
najpopularnija radio-stanica u Jugoslaviji. Nedavno je pocela i sa TV, ali to
je skupo. Ona je na samom startu. Jos nema ni kameru. Na TV je uglavnom
pustala spotove i filmove. Spotovi su bili americki, filmovi uglavnom. Nije
imala uopste vesti, samo meteorolosku prognozu. To je iskljucivo izvan zone
politike. I u njenom radiju i u njenoj TV. To je prva TV koja je stradala. Na
onom brifingu koji Nato ima svakog dana u tri sata receno je da je "Kosava"
pogodjena zato sto je to bio medij preko koga je totalitarna politika,
nacionalisticka, miloseviceva bila emitovana i tako dalje. Jedan od punktova
njegove politike. I za odmazdu, ona je dva puta granatirana. Ni kamen na
kamenu nije ostao od njene TV i radija. Bez posla je ostalo 30-tak mladica i
devojaka od kojih su najstariji, recimo, 20 godina. Svi ostali su mladji. Vi
biste sada za njih mogli da kazete: kazu u zapadnim zemljama ta stanica je
bila nosilac socijalisticke, totalitarne nedemokratske miloseviceve politike.
Ja vam na to kao i za ono da nasi vojnici siluju Albanke mogu da kazem - nije
tacno. Ne da nije tacno, nego suprotno. Cak ni vesti nije imala. Ali, kako da
se borim ja iz ove stolice sa Nato-om koji moze da slaze sto god hoce. Zato
kazem - otvorite televizije, otvorite novine. Nemojte drzati pod tolikom
blokadom medije u zemljama koje bombarduju Jugoslaviju, pa neka onda narodi i
gradjani tih zemalja odluce hoce li da nose odgovornost za zlocin koji se vrsi
nad Jugoslavijom. Nedavno je britanski MIP Kuk rekao kako smo moja deca i ja
pobegli iz Jugoslavije. Ja sam mu napisala otvoreno pismo. Svi ovde znaju da
smo mi tu. Ne samo da znaju da smo tu, nego znaju da ne bismo nikad ni otisli.
Ali, hocu li ja svakog dana morati da demantujem gnusne lazi koje se ticu moje
porodice do onih koje se ticu moje drzave. Manipulacija recima i istinama je
mocno oruzje modernog doba. Dok nije pocelo bombardovanje Jugoslavije, mislila
sam da je taj medijski rat gori od klasicnog rata. Bila sam u zabludi. To je
samo zato sto nisam znala da postoji ovo novo oruzje, ovo koje je liseno svake
vojnicke casti.

Pitanje: Ja sam zadovoljan sto sam napravio ovaj intervju i zahvaljujem sto
ste pokazali toliko strpljenja. Jos jedno, poslednje pitanje. Govorili ste o
licnim pitanjima i rekli ste da vam je neprijatno da odgovarate na licna
pitanja.

Odgovor: Nije mi neprijatno, nego nekako ne umem.

Pitanje: Mnogi ljudi ce se iznenaditi sto kazete da niste ona snaga iza
predsednika, da niste onaj "spiritus agens". Fer i nefer, kazu da je to kao
Hilari i Klinton u Srbiji.

Odgovor: Ja nisam po zanimanju supruga predsednika. Ja sam profesor
univeziteta. Imam svoju profesiju. Imam svoje mesto u drustvu koje sam
formirala mnogo pre nego sto je moj muz postao predsednik Srbije. Ja sam bila
redovni profesor beogradskog univerziteta pre nego sto je moj muz postao
predsednik Srbije. Politicki sam bila aktivna citavog svog zivota. Nekada
kazem - od trenutka kada sam se rodila, jer sam se rodila u partizanima, u
partizanskom odredu u kome su moji roditelji bili. U trenutku kada sam se
rodila svet je bio politicki. U tom politickom svetu sam bila politicki
prisutna citavog svog zivota. Bila sam politicki aktivna i kao studentkinja i
kasnije kao profesor univeziteta i posto imam visoko razvijeno osecanje za
jugoslovenstvo, nalazim se u politickoj partiji koja se zove jugoslovenska
levica. Kada bi postojala neka svetska levica, ja bih bila u njoj. Meni,
dakle, nije potreban muz kao kanal vertikalne pokretljivosti. Morate da se
suocite sa jednim drugacijim oblikom zenskog zivota. Mislim da ce u 21. veku
vecina zena se ponasati kao ja, da im nece otac, muz ili sin sluziti kao kanal
vertikalne pokretljivosti.

Novinar americke TV mreze CBS Rader se na kraju opsirnog razgovora sa dr Mirom
Markovic zahvalio sledecim recima: "Hvala lepo na intervjuu koji ste mi dali."